主题:  Future Improvements to AW

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#12003/11/15 3:12:45
May 4, 2002

'Future Improvements to Authorware'

Sorry about Apurva
I was up at 5 AM here finishing a PHP project...we could of done it then. =+)
about "that" i mean
Next time, Chris
Steve Howard> Cool -= I was thinking about lunch then Chris ;-)
[Sat May 04 18:58:07 GMT+01:00 2002] David Lynch: Michigan USA
Hi, David
its okay. Company of the best people in the world is worth it
Hi David
Hi David
hello all
Yes, I am pleasantly surprised at who is here
I know we have some more coming, but the log has started
wouldn't miss an opportunity to find out what to do next :-)
i was working on my college project. Making a cafe model simulation
I know I have my ideas on what I'd like to see happen, but what does everyone else think
in authorware
Apu's version of 'the Authorware Sims'
[Sat May 04 18:59:53 GMT+01:00 2002] Ronny Elgad has no profile.
Hi, Ronny
Motion icons that support rotation
Hi all
Hi Ronny
Oooh, good idea
[Sat May 04 19:00:15 GMT+01:00 2002] andrew lucking has no profile.
hi
Hi Ronny
I've wanted those for a long time
rotation from center point
There are so many things we have to fudge because of that
hi all
g'day all
Hi, Andrew
Is there a technical reason why Authorware can't support rotation natively?
I'd love to see Director -style image modes all the "ink" ontions in Director are way more powerful than AWs
what kind of graphic support with that? Would be ok to only allow rotation of vector or would we need support for png, psd, gif, bmp, and all that?
If it is visible, spin it ;-)
I don't think rotating AW drawn images would help much
And Aw does not seem to do other vector formats well
They would look better if they were antialiasable
i agree the images for rotation should be imported formats
Mike, does the graphic format make a difference? What does the motion icon do now with different formats?
Some graphic formats don't support it as easily as others
repaint issues?
I always have to ask the question, what are you using it for?
Well, a question that comes up from time to time on the ng is to use it to simulate dials and such
Control knobs in simulations...I've always had to find a workaround when faced with control knobs
Advertisements Trade show displays training
Mike, won't the vector formats need some kind of recalculation while repainting ?
I can think of 1000 things that I would use it for. But then I would just do those things in flash.
It is good to list what you want to do exactly, rather than just saying rotation.
Yes, but Flash does not do OTHER things as well as AW
and Flash in AW has limitations
aw seems to have inconsistency in flash with transparent backgrounds.
That's very true Amy
I have an issue with using Flash for certain animation because of the slow-down
You want to interact with an image and allow the user to rotate it in increments or drag in either direction.
Yes - or just have it rotate instead of using a movie
That is just part of it...you give us rotation and you know as soon as you do we'll start pushing it
or just to show some thing
Either let the user rotate it OR rotate with the motion icon.
right
Personally I have a need to rotate the image at various speeds thus I use director or flash but they are slow load (director) and inconsistent (flash)
if you can rotate it with the motion icon, you can let the user think they did it anyway
Recently, there's a Masters student in Physics trying to emulate optics experiments that involve rotating an object and seeing how light bends at different angles.
But he is using AW 4
that definitely sounds like a job for Director
rotation in 7 won't do him any good ;-)
He got all kinds of advice including doing it in Flash which wasn't an option because he's using A4.
The ActiveX would be supported
nothing that we discuss here will wind up in AW 4
:-)
he can use the ActiveX control in 4
Ya think LOL
I do a lot of work with automotive they have rotating mass in various applications I try to create sims
Awe :'-(
Amy, you're right...but he's not the only person who may want to create optics simulations among other things
I saw an interesting concept at the MM free seminar in Austin. They are pushing Flash as a front end for Database applications
What are some of the inconsistencies people are seeing in Flash?
I have been discussing similar things with a prospective client - imaging for Oil rigs .. trying to simulate the stuff that is going on 6 miles underground
Is this THE thing that people want. If you could pick ONE thing would this be it?
we do a lot of work with creating sims for machinery
The problem with using ActiveX is that it's not cross-platform. I'm still seeing the need to support things for the Mac.
anybody here remember the figurative $100? How much of your $100 would go into rotation?
I think AW has much more capability in that direction
so we need animated gears and wheels
[Sat May 04 19:09:33 GMT+01:00 2002] Mark Henry: Rampant Lion Interactive - We Make Authorware EASY! - www.rlinteractive.com
using transparent backgrounds loads once works great 2nd time poor
We want everything, guys ;-)
Afternoon!
Welcome
-:)
Hey Mark
hi Mark
Hi mark
Hi Mark
Have I missed anything important?
I have a question for the group. Much was made at EuroTAAC about having AW be able to export Flash
we've been discussing adding rotation to the motion icon
Hi Mark
How much interest do the people in this room have in being able to do that?
I'd be willing to pay $50 for that feature (out of the hypothetical $100).
OK Jamil - here's $30 of my wedge - fix the unsupported thing in the Asset Xtra for Flash - LoadMovie etc, - and improve performance for transparent movies
The ability to rotate and zoom via the Motion icon is long overdue.
oh yeah, zoom too.
We just been talking about that very think Mark
$100
maybe not via the motion icon
what about making one of the image and/or icon properties
or a new icon to replace the video icon :-)
allow those to actually be variably set
Improved support for scaling images in AW.
the docs say now that scale SHOULD be settable
Exporting to Flash would be good in concept, if for nothing else than to reduce problems associated with distributing and supporting the AW plugin.
but it is not
[Sat May 04 19:12:36 GMT+01:00 2002] Erik Lord: top secret
Yes...can we lose the video icon. Hardware to support it is long gone
I second the scaling
Hey Erik :D
Ha, Erik, we know it's you
lol ;) hi
hey Eric
Hi Erik
Hi Erik
but why not just build in flash mark, time?
I think faster support for Flash and a command that made a flash file from an image that could rotate, zoom, etc. would be handy
Flash takes longer to develop in
Hey Erik
hey folks
What kind of stuff do you think exporting in flash have ?
What about the other way about - what would we lose with a Flash Export option??
any action script experts here?
what if creating a rotating, zooming flash file was simple
I, personally, have less interest in exporting to Flash
It kind of is, but you still have the problems with performance
The animation part of Flash is simple...rotate and zoom...Other things that involve Action script take longer to develop and are hellishly difficult to troubleshoot.
me too - but I hear people shouting about multi-platform delivery. If that is a real demand on us, Flash and HTML are the easiest solutions. Then I would want Flash export
rotating, zoom , translate should be a breeze with flash if flash could be exported
why is the performance with Flash in Aware so...slow?
Yes, AW does fall down when it comes to cross platform delivery
And that's pretty simple to write a flash file...
why not push for better x-platform aw support?
that's why I need an action script expert. what do we typically do in AW that's easy that we would lose in the swf format?
What platform(s) are you including when you say "cross platform"?
Interactivity
I think that would be prohibitively expensive. Hey Jamil... Have you guys looked at that? The cost of cross-platform development of AW vs. Flash export costs?
And, actually, the ability to create a whole group of Winctrls that can be easily treated as a group
but can that be done with action script. Click this GoTo scene that?
Well, a lot of the world won't give up their Macs
Cross-platform? I hear a small number of people shouting very loudly that they NEED Mac and Unix support
As Mark asked, what do you mean by cross platform?
more than that, Mike
AW does drag and drop EASILY
I have been reading a lot about delivery of training to palm-top devices via Flash too. Never seen any though
Mike, some types of interactions...where you have custom cursors on hot spots but not on others...couldn't do that with Flash 5. Hand cursor always shows even if you use a button as a catch all. I don't know about MXS
you have to turn yourself inside out in Flash to do what a day 1 developer can do as far as drag and drop in AW
Interactions in general are overly complex to achieve in Flash. AW makes interactions a breeze
Yes, but if AW is going to be able to stand on its own two feet toe to toe with Flash it needs to run on everything Flash can
Drag and drop is definitely a drag in Flash
Maybe you should ask for an AW interface on top of Flash . :-)
lol grace
[Sat May 04 19:19:12 GMT+01:00 2002] Kathy Napierala has no profile.
Oh yes :-) But if you can get it to work in Flash it can be more powerful
Actually, I'd like to see an AW interface on top of XHTML
Is there a market really for Mac/ Unix... how often are clients asking for this?
ask who Jamil? mm or the psd guys? ;-)
That's not the point. The "perception" is that Flash is better because it is cross platform
we hear occasional requests for Mac, never for *nix
What would be easier...to put an Authorware interface on Flash or to add some Flash-like features to Authorware?
Neither.
I'd also like to see AW be used a lot more for application development, so you could have seamless integrated training
=+) good answer
for that to work, you have to be accessible to all comers
I'm not in the PR department. I don't care as much about "perceptions"
Chris nobody has ever asked me for this. I just hear folk like Grace, Mike Mizen telling us they need Mac support, and Mike also has said he wants Unix. Then there is that guy AhFoo on the NG who thinks the world will end without Authorware in Linux
We all know about perception, but what it boils down to is how do I get more done quicker
I assume it is completely out of the question to rewrite Aware, eh?
Wine works fine on most *nix with AW
well, you should be. Every time someone chooses to buy a copy of Flash because they perceive it as more capable than Flash, that is less R&D money you get
Nothing is ever out of the question, just what is realistic.
why not then? You could make it SO great...
I still have clients who are asking for programs to run on the Mac. The worst of it is, they don't ask up-front. They add it on as a requirement when the project is close to completion.
Flash ++++
I've had very little requests for MAC or Unix/Linux support. I send the MAC guys to Michael Mizen, and the Unix requests I tell them I'll do it on PC and they're OK with that.
so why it is not realistic?
I'd think cost
but the returns...
ho
Grace if they ask at the end tell them to *&(_&)&^)*&*_(*^%%$£^£$^£ ;-)
biggest bad is taking away from Flash base
Yes? What are the returns?
to whom?
MM
MM of course ;)
[Sat May 04 19:23:09 GMT+01:00 2002] Ron McNutt: knowledgeware@kccsoft.com
What do you mean Erik? Returns from rewriting AW?
[Sat May 04 19:23:23 GMT+01:00 2002] Erick Emde: Like pina coladas, getting caught in the rain...
Hey Ron, Erick!
yeap
Steve, I'd like to but...I like to eat and still have a mortgage ...
It would be THE premiere authoring tool
right
It would be nice to have a new code base but I'm not sure that the size of the AW Community could support the dev costs
:-) look at it as a weight loss program, Grace :D
What returns do you imagine? MM would have to spend a lot and sell a lot to get returns forma rewrite, so what would they have to add/improve to justify the cost and attract buyers?
LOL
plus we'd have to wait along time for the update
it would be tough at first, I think, but afterwards, no other tool would compare
what tool compares now. =+)
Exactly. But nobody knows about it today
of course ;) but Toolbook still has a base, doesn't it?
yep there is no tool like AW as of now
if it were **perceived** as more accessible than Flash it would be even better
but never loose sight :)
I know from working with other peoples' code that it is often easier to start from scratch than unpick and try to figure out what is happening, where
and you usually wind up with a more capable product in the end
Yes !!!
but we want more that the issue
agreed Amy
Yes, but when you hit 1M lines of code, it isn't a small project to start over.
I'm sure it's going to be a huge task...
No, it's not
but I know we have a very talented team, with loads of experience
Sure. I suspect you would have number of interested developers who would love to work on the project though :D
So, you'd have to ask yourself would you sell enough additional copies to justify the cost?
and very hard to justify
but isn't there a growing need for this type of tool? if you could make it Flash + Aware...wow
No 1M lines of code is a huge task, and when you already have the best tool out there does it make sense to start over?
Who is the major target for a rewrite? Us? How much of the Flash/other tool developers are pushing them so far that they would switch over to a new tool
probably not for a year+
Well, eventually you won't be able to sell any copies as the base code gets further and further out of date
I can understand the desire for such a thing, however.
that's the biggest var I think, cannibalizing Flash community
Every day I have AW, Delphi, Flash, and notepad (the best code tool ever) open, I don't even think about the fact that I'm using different tools
Does anybody else agree that there appears to be a change in the market? More demand for LMS integration means more people are delivering via web/intranet ... therefore the predicted boom is almost upon us???
Chris , I agree with you but with the growing technology needs to be updated someday if not today then tomorrow. And if stuff is required , necessarily needed then it must be added or existing stuff modified
I agree Steve, I hear it more and more
That is a good point
I agree
What about reducing the size of the runtime. Is that possible without a complete rewrite of Authorware?
and if AW could anticipate, and become a web application building tool with integrated training...WOW!
I'm seeing more demand for records keeping and data analysis - but not necessarily LMS integration.
I agree the existing stuff should be modified as the needs comes up, which so far has been the case.
and if that predicted boom is upon us, a new greater version of Authorware needs to be here very soon...
So you want a smaller runtime than Flash MX?
I've got a trick to make Xtras, u32, and dlls much smaller. It's helped us out a lot.
Grace - the runtime is pretty small now. Or do you mean the size of the FULL plugin and Xtras?
Certainly on the executable side
The runtimes are about the same size
not necessarily smaller than MX ;) but backward-compatible would be an issue
one more important thing that is required is ability to create functions
I am not as bothered by the size of the player
Actually one that loads quicker on the web and shows the user something is happening
I think the Flash development team will solve that problem for us if they continue as they are Jamil ;-)
Or a runtime about as small as Flash's. How big is the MX runtime now?
around 800k
[Sat May 04 19:30:49 GMT+01:00 2002] Rick Zanotti: rzanotti@relate.com
Hi, Rick
glad you could make it
They're the same size now.
Hey Rick
Hi All, sorry I'm late...
And the ability to load Xtras on demand would be nice, too
plugin size not so much a problem w. broadband coming
and I think its coming
that makes the perceived start-up for AW much longer than it has to be
maybe
a TV in every house kinda thing
I guess the tag along product runtimes (A3.5 through 5) add a lot to the runtime. How does Flash deal with the backward compatibility?
Exactly - so when they realize the video support in Flash is rubbish the Flash plugin will grow even bigger and AW will be the smaller player
I'm really only delivering to corporate intranets, so there's not much impact on download speed - it's the time it takes the plugin to start that's frustrating.
right on Steve and Amy
Flash handles it by putting a whole bunch of engineers on Save As Flash 5.
lol
:-)
Grace, I think if they made the older ones available separately, it would make more sense. Like the ability to choose between minimal and full
Flash has an established habit of backward compatibility to live up to. Authorware has the opposite habit carved in .. history ;-)
back compact w/OUT separate runtimes would be kicka**
Jamil, so you guys will just have to drink more coffee ;-)
Not really, Macromedia wants to drive the sales of AW6
But it means a lot of confusion for the end user...as if there isn't enough now.
There is that
For my customers (nonprofits) it's the fact that the plugin has to be downloaded at all, not included like Flash.
Can you make the plugin standard in IE and NET like flash and shockwave?
web delivery is a mystical realm for many
Plug-in size all of a sudden isn't so much an issue anymore with Flash MX vs AW
I can imagine 'included' is a tough sell
LOL
LOL
noooooooo........
MS buys MM , eeeeekkkkssssss
But many IT shops don't install the Flash option in Windows anyway
please don't
This is the point we missed earlier when we spoke of Flash Export. The size of the plugin for Flash is mostly irrelevant - as most people already have it!!
There's still the perception that Flash is 'part' of the web browser...it's not an add on.
Rick - what's funny is that when Flash v1 came out that was a big
"plus" that MM touted - that the plugin was so much smaller than AW or Dir! Now it's headed the opposite direction!
You find so, Rick?
That's very true, Mark
I think it's about 50-50 IME, but not all THAT many big corp clients
Yes, you can argue that 300k difference is no difference in corporate shops
because they are doing the only thing they can do to keep up interest -- adding features. You cannot add features without adding bulk
my problem is the host doesn't want to add plugin with out a 4 month eval and test but flash is assumed to be part of IE so they don't even blink an eye
rewrite ;)
interesting David, I can see that
IE7 should come in at a small 100Gb to take advantage of new disks. :)
My suggestion is that in the short term, MM put effort into making the plugin download as easy and bullet-proof as possible for all end users, including a meter showing % downloaded and keep the users advised what is being loaded to their machines. Overall I have found the plugin download less trouble than expected, in most cases quite smooth.
next version of MS OS is gonna be delivered on a DVD!
It sounds like the biggest issue is perception, not the capabilities of the tools or the size of the plug-ins...is this what I'm hearing?
METER!
they want toolbook cause they sneak in and the host never knows
Yes, but that is a very real issue for us as developers
Jamil, multi-threading in AW would be great
Chris...yes, perception is everything...
YUP!!!
I second multi-threading
Third
fourth
and maybe the ability to work on multiple monitors
trying to fake it ties you in knots
what would that really mean?
Great. How much will you pay for it?
and finally I am swayed to the argument of changing the code to OOP
and breaks the call stack if you are not very, very careful
Take it out of Flash's budget. :)
Chris/Apurva - can you give me an example of how you would use multi-threading for a CBT?
$40
lol
$50
I use it now in U32's
I already work on multi-monitors
but that's only for external processes...
One Chris in every shop with AW7
LOL
No Chris is too busy now as it is. =+)
lol
LOL
We'll need a bigger box.
I'll ay $100 for Chris ;-)
what would multithreading achieve?
wouldn't multi threading undermine the flow idea of AW
CBT maybe no. simulations multi-threading can be useful
You just said you slept today
what do you mean, busy?
How would you get Chris to download? And would he work on a MAC?
Broadband, Mark
He used to work on Macs... times change
what about in a palm pilot? Could we get Chris in there?
=+) I was up until 5 working on a PHP thing and I do work on a
Mac (realbasic) but lets not...
What would the perceived goal of multithreading be?
Oh great, and he talks back to. Now I want a refund.
Multi-threading would not kill the flow of AW it would enhance it
I don't know - you brought it up!
Imagine multiple parallel flowlines all active simultaneously - pretty cool
No Rick did. =+)
lol
Well, for instance, say you are using TTS to drive an
"animation" of a character with lips moving in response to the phonemes
Isn't that the point of Perpetual interactions?
and this has to work regardless of what else is going on
Yes, but they only work to a certain point
I've never tried TTS in Aware
We're doing cockpit simulations and could REALLY use multi-threads
and you have to use lots of them to keep everything separated
You have to work real hard to get multiple events and perpetuals to play the game in AW
Multi-threading works now in Xtras/u32/dlls if it's been programmed that way...sounds like you want better event support?
events would be good too in AW
Chris we don't all make u32s and Xtras
Or is it faster updates to displayed items?
Yes, parallel events that don't disrupt existing flowlines
Not just events...anything where two things can happen at once causes problems
I know but does it make sense to add it to the base product or bug the Xtra vendor?
like a perpetual conditional that triggers right as you click a button, for instance
put van as on it
I use very very few Xtras or u32s. I'll happily bug MM thanks :D
How is he doing, BTW?
Jamil, could multi-threading be accomplished without a rewrite?
Chris - I'm not sure how a U32 or Xtra could provide that type of concurrent functionality/event handling..
Or pressing a perpetual button as a sync event triggers....
MojoScript does, right?
Only works for processes outside of AW, it still has to notify AW when it has something to return
Possibly, but it would not be simple. It would be major work.
And we haven't even gotten into the gyrations that 508 requires

Jamil - Mike Baker could probably do it in a weekend :- )
{good question, how is Stefan??}
Nope MojoScript is not multithreaded (returns a result directly from the function call so it has to wait)
ah
it would not only be major work, it would also complicate the interface
Jamil, only one I know is multi-threaded is Quest and it's near death
Take'n a break and coming the US, sounds like he is doing better.
Good!
You'd need to have some way of determining which thread, since you couldn't just do one or the other.
Great !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
I worry about the person who has a perpetual that needs to execute in a separate thread but also needs to know when that thread is done so the main thread can continue
yep
my head hurts
So they do it carefully ;-)
The thought of a secondary, callable flowline maybe?
Flash seems to handle that sort of thing handily. I don't suppose any of the concepts from Flash would transfer ;-)
That is what I was thinking.
With multi-threading w/I Aware, thinking of the visual imagery, how would you imagine the flowline looking (to be effective)?
A second flowline.
It could be done through Flash, but the events would need to be more fluid in AW
If the code was OOP, and we can have user-defined functions, would that not get us *closer* to multithreading anyway?
A second flowline? How would that look?
like two flowlines? ;-)
but the second flowline is attached to the perpetual somewhere else in the program. Maybe an addition to the wait icon, wait for other thread.
It would be in a thought bubble ;-)
maybe at the top of the main, a map with a biiiig perpetual ;)
Oooh, that would be cool...two flow lines side by side
but then defining the relationships between them!
Or through perpetual subroutines
Actually, Erik, that has been done. That's how we do it now ;-)
There's your video icon replacement -- second flowline HERE please ;-)
Maybe something like a decision icon that split the flow. That would also handle the synching issue..
lol
Amy, there could only be one relational entry point
Rather than a second flowline in the current program, what about being able to load and call processes contained in a separate AW program.
ooh, good one
Sort of, shared AW libraries WITHOUT the overhead of a JumpOut?
Kind of like ASP
That would be good too, Mark
sort of like frames in a browser???
Oh there's your user functions. Store them in a separate file. Cool idea.
yes, very!
Yes - like Frames - you could load a process like read record that would be a separate AW file
I like that. Gimme gimme gimme $110
user functions a definite yes
Commands that work at runtime?
It would support user-defined functions, but also have its own event stack for handling multithreading
What would be really nice is commands that stay up while you are designing
over head becomes an issue at this point...
over head ?
You could use it, for instance, to have a set of bookmarks to commonly edited places in the file
As it does with Xtras and U32's. It would have to be managed by the developer.
Amy, yes that would be cool....I'd give $90 for that
:)
Hmmm.. same process = same memory space. wouldn't be automatic, have to handle the threads it manually.
overhead would be processing power required to execute the second flowline
OK, let's go back to the $5k price and add lots of new toys. :)
LOL
in this world of multi-GHz GHz RAM machines does overhead come into it? Specify a minimum spec for multi-processing
oh OK. yeah that would be an overhead. slower execution
Yes, what ABOUT that 2 gig limitation?
ohhh
rewrite
Gone. Fixed.
woohoo!
:D YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYY
I love you man!
So, when do we get that? ;-)
thanks Jamil!!!!!!!!!
ordering Ram now.. =+)
lol
Me too Me too
:)
how much can I squeeze into this laptop again?? :-D
Next release.
LOL
Cool.
many thank you's Aware team for that
MY NEW SYSTEM WILL APPRECIATE IT
That'll reduce the message load on the ng
oops
Wait to see what I broke when I fixed it. ;-)
.jar files to auto install player on Netscape?
lol
:-(
LOL
Yeah everything loads backwards now.
The bank?
maybe now all computers need 2Gigs minimum for AW to start
:o)
Just a whole lot sweeter installation of the plugin would be lovely.
5 minutes of work, about 5 months of testing. :-)
;)
Isn't that always the way of it
Sounds like parenthood.
test test test story of my life
ouch
and 2 months of red tape before to get the change approved
Microsoft - 5 years of work, 5 years of beta testing, lots of bugs anyway. :)
blame it on the beta testers ;-)
This is a much lower-level, newbie-type comment, but I think it speaks to user base. Perception-wise, I have a very hard time selling AW in my shop because of some of the things people expect to be able to do very simply cuz of HTML experience, such as mailto and PDF support, which seem to be difficult in AW. The attitude is , what features does AW have that makes it worth it. This might be invalidated by more experience but the initial impression makes it tough to get people to spend the time to get the experience.
but hey release it the fix it on next release the MS way
Mailto and PDF are not that tough
PDF Xtra makes PDF a doddle, and there are loads of Mailto options.
Kathy, make models/KO's for them to use so it's not hard on 'em>
?
Kathy, AW can do much more than HTML and quicker too...
Steve - it can be pretty daunting for new users. Even with the KOs and Commands that come with AW now.
ActiveX will do PDF
No, its just they guys in my shop expect them to be automatic! Like I said, its just perception.
The best thing about AW is the ease of authoring when compared to flash or html...course that only works if you're just starting out...if you know HTML or flash it's a harder sell
I think that is the type of stuff we should be doing, making common tasks incredibly simple.
Kathy, do they actually do interactivity in HML?
Anything is daunting when you don't know how. Once you learn it - it is a doddle.
oops HTML
JZ - YES! Exactly!
It comes down to audience - who does AW most?
I'd tend to doubt it...THAT is tough
to sell more, I agree Jamil
What are some tasks that should be simpler?
I have a list but I'd like to hear what other's have to say
Hmmmm- drag an rtf onto the flowline which looks at the Xtras table and selects the Xtra that uses rtf doc?
Hey, you know the next chat will be models that should be included in the next release of AW
installing the web player should be as easy as it is for Flash !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
cool Amy
Recording keeping that support analysis, bookmarking, web delivery,
YAY Steve I second
on the Netscape side as well
Yes, web delivery has been made easier with OBP, but many aspects are still a mystery
read/write data to database
No, not interactivity, and I have been able to sell AW for that. My point was that people expect stuff that's simple in HTML be simple in AW also.
RTF could be much better, agreed, any kinda ext text embedding
xml
html display
right the web issue
XML YES
email, post, get
Sound control - muting sound, controlling volume
XML! $150
Yes, being able to change the color of text on the fly is a biggie
Yes again Jamil
read/write to xml, databases, text files - better, more automated support for parsing
Completely native database support without code
It should be super simple, as automatic as possible.
Make the HELP button bigger
any type of document. rtf, PDF, html, if there's an Xtra (or ActiveX) to handle then add it automatically.
no inquiries about XML yet, I think SCORM is a bigger issue?
Native support for read/write XML > 32KB.
I'll spend my other $50 on HTML display
SCORM/AICC etc. is a huge issue - finding and distilled information/instructions is difficult
Most people don't care about SCORM or AICC in corporations...
I would disagree with that
No more 32 k limit on text files too please
I think it depends on the size of the corp...I'm seeing it a lot
we're seeing it more and more Rick
SCORM AICC is a growing issue
Actually, there are a lot of "auxiliary" issues that MM can't possibly address
Amy - like what?
ya, why 32k limit?
we need to be able to get that information compiled and to the public
Like "what is XML"
Yes ... If I get this job... ;-)

Yes, we see it too, but it's never been an issue with any user we had (lots of Fortune 500). They don't seem to really care too much
like "how does an AW web piece fit into a web page"
stuff like that
I'm getting a lot of requests from Fed Gov and large companies that do work with the Fed.
re: SCORM - they don't care until they start thinking about interoperability -
I remember a time that we could submit articles to MM and have them posted to the website
Stuff that we are trying to get onto various FAQ pages
Yes, but then the stuff is all over the place
MM simply does not have the resources to write all these articles
[Sat May 04 20:03:24 GMT+01:00 2002] Ron McNutt: knowledgeware@kccsoft.com
but many of us can and will!
Maybe so Erick - but even getting something to work on the first LMS is tougher than it should be
and do Amy ;-)
Same here, but not corporate too much... Ask the normal client why they want SCORM and you usually get blank stares...
Oh, I agree whole-heartedly
Hehehe - they just know they "need" it.
otoh, it SCORM can justify a larger quote ;)
we do, but it is harder for people to find them
Hehe, that's right, Mark
SCORM is sometimes a buzz word picked up by people who want to sound plugged in. They throw it around like they do Flash
Jamil, what are the odds we can get the MM website opened back up for articles again?
very true
Nah - they throw Flash around like it was loose change ;-)
If not Brandt is setting that up on Authorware.com
LOL
cool Chris
Yes, honestly most businesses don't need full compliance now
But if you ask them if they want to be able to pull in generic content to supplement the custom content or want to be able to use this again if they change LMSs, I be they'll say yes
but they suspect they will need it in the future
But what if that content is AICC?
Sure they will Erick - even if they never actually do it ;-)
Too many "Standards" - beta vs. VHS
I'm curious about that 32k limit....
Aren't we all...
;-)
I believe it's a hold over from the old days
Jamil fell asleep - one too many Old Jock's ;-)
safe answer
not too easy to boost I guess ;)
lol
could there be an Xtra which could write say MS-Access format or any database format where records could be got and a recordset moved through
He and Mike are probably having a conference "can we do all this"?
that would be cool
there are many Xtras like this now

Sure it would Apu - but it can already be done
Jamil's working on the multi-thread issue - should be done before end of chat. :)
Yes - but it needs to be something that's fronted by an intuitive interface.
they already knew our mental state ;-)
;-0
LOL
That is a problem...You have to do hours and hours of research to take even a baby step sometimes
commands that helped with database access would be a plus then
Child Calls thanks everybody see you at the next chat thanx Amy
Yes Amy ;-(
bye David
I haven't tried commands much at all yet...
OK, Dave - see ya!!!!
That sounds like more of a KO issue. You'd need to leave code in the file to do it
Have a good one
commands can write code anywhere...even a selected icon
true
Yes - a KO that allowed you to point to a database, then select a table from a list, and then fields from the table.
Great chat! My family beckons as well... See you all soon.
Have a good one
bye Rick
bye
l8r Rick
the ODBC u32 is okay but if there could be a few more functions like getting records, getting fields . Then again the problem of 32K
I don't know about Delphi, but it wouldn't be hard in VB. Chris?
[Sat May 04 20:10:32 GMT+01:00 2002] Jamil Zainasheff(2): Director of Engineering, Macromedia
Like a DSN less connection!
Hi, Jamil
Delphi is simpler
we were wondering what happened
Mark, that sounds a lot like what MM has in Dreamweaver Ultradev/MX
what's that?
Right. It's really not that hard if you have a tool that is dB aware.
Power loss, now it won't let me back in under the same name.
The trade-offs is that UD has a lot of extra code that slows things down tremendously
Yes, we are trying to go to an AW only chat room
The issue isn't getting the data/tables/fields... it's creating a new text block in a display icon
oh, ok, so....about that 32k limit ;)
Very good point
the chat client is a little buggy. It forgets to forget you when you disappear
Creating a new text block in an EXISTING display icon?
yep
embedded vars?
Ah.
Jamil - tell us about the 32k limit variables
but doing it automatically from a command
better control to the individual objects within a display icon in general
oh
Mike, bingo
Chris I look forward to the day we can add text fields to display icons :D
Chris: I have a Command that writes an RTF file from a text file
]Yes Yes Yes
I bet if we put our heads together, we might be able to come up with something
yep Mike, control over individual items in an icon would be cool
Mike - Yes. Object name referencing, but not just as development time, but during delivery as well.
Yes more power at runtime
What would be really nice would be for paragraphs to be as aware of themselves as AW is of them
SetIconContents - the reverse of GetIconContents which would allow a list variable to specify the items within the display?
I have text and a line break, therefore I am .... ?
if item control is possible then stuff like color change and font and stuff would be cool to do
Mike yes that would be perfect
Amy, what do you mean?
Yes please Mike
Runtime too?
neat mike
of course
How many times have you had to go through code and set up {Mylist[thelineIamin]} and change that umpteen times
I'd be happy with CallTarget only, but as much as you can give us would be nice. =+)
yes, Mike, definitely runtime
It is great to meet you all but I've got to go see you next time
runtime
Have a good one Ronny
OK Ronny ... have fun
l8r Ron
thanks for stopping by
bye Ronny
bye
yes, building a table on the fly would be groovy
Building a table in a display icon, or in a dB?
Erick has a groovy kind of table :-D
both!
but display icon
This is something that Jamil brings up from time to time. How important is the support for other platforms - meaning 16bit, 68k?
like a Word or Excel table?
or HTML table...
I do not care about 16 bit and have not done for 5 years
Mike, I'd say none...strip it out =+) there are older versions of AW that people can use
I can't imagine that anyone cares about Win 3.1 these days
generic table, but html would be neat too
Chris - I agree
no deliveries to Win16 in years
But what about support for my Commodore 64? It's got color AND sound!
You can't load 16 bit functions anyway
you want to support 10 year old OSs use old software too
I've never done a 16bit delivery
Whippersnapper.
Victoria will be so upset ;-)
Mark I can think of a few places where you can put that commodore :-)
You are just too young
lol
me too never done a 16bit delivery in years maybe 6 - 8 years
1997 for me
well qbasic but no Authorware
Vickie will die happy :D
If she can just get rid of TenCORE
Got to go - thanks for the perspective.
cya Kathy
hey don't knock the TenCORE, that's where I started... 9 years ago
OK Kathy
By Kathy!
Thanks for coming out, Kathy
bye
Bye!
she was using 5 anyway so new versions wouldn't matter
I started there too - 5.5 years ago. And cast it aside for AW a year later
as Chris mentioned there are old versions for those that need
that support
yeah but she saw 6 at ET and wanted it ;-)
Erik, you can do tables on the fly with repeat loops and drawing squares & lines - but it's not real pretty or fast code
what about localization ?
yeap, pretty slow, but true
and still need embedded vars, eh?
we had a client which has got offices in a few parts of the world
I have done two Spanish versions in my career and that's it
not that its not an issue
HTML support in displays would handle tables easily.
dates, time, currency, all have different formats
agreed Jamil
JZ, yep that would be cool
And it would handle HTML too! What a bargain!
err yep
And color changes
Yes please Jamil. :-)
oh yeap
And text styles, and alignment, and fonts....
so auto use of IE control, or....
own rendering engine
if you give us HTML support in displays, then do something about 32k limit too please ;-)
hey - my window just cleared. I wasn't finished reading!
Read faster.
mine did that about 10 min ago....
:-)
32k makes the HTML pretty limited
;-)
Mine did too
32k limit
I keep after Chris about the MojoMessage thing
so that we won't have that problem
I'm working on it
;-)
MojoMessage?
id does that every now and than - it is a pain. Nothing we can do to stop it :-(
So we can make this an all AW chat room
I ran into a string limit...researching new components. Actually MojoChat is the name ...MojoMessage is something else
oops
Hey Chris, what about MoJo Massage?

You need it? I've got it.
=+)
String limit? 32K
Cool :-)
I'll be over in a couple of weeks ;-)
Can't take you anywhere
bring money that will cost you
Moi??
I have real American Dollar
As opposed to...?
Yes we keep asking about this 32k limit and all we hear is tumbleweed
no smaller then 32k it's for the individual messages.
Afghani Dollar?
I'm cluttering the TCP/IP calls somehow
Yes, but I can set a limit to the number of characters till we get that worked out
So, MM Guys, ABOUT this 32K limit? What is causing it, and what can be done to fix it?

Chris, I would be glad to help if you I can on the chat stuff. but I don't know Delphi., anything in C ?
Apurva, maybe...contact me off list sometime and we will discuss
ok

Multi-platform support.
the data type was probably done in 16bit days and is small
binary source files...?
So, it's the MAC support that's causing the problem?
The 32K limit is caused by multi platform support?
Mac support restricts us to 32k???
It's probably 64 bit but it's storing twice the data for cross platform?
whoops
64k
64k would be an improvement, but still rather small.
No, the tools we're using. Let us drop 16 bit and Mac and go strictly to 32 bit win and it would be much easier.
Especially if we're talking about adding support for html.
Ok, sounds good. When can you start? ;-)
there is always FileIO
16bit np, Mac....grrrr
Mac 68k
Jamil, would HTML support be layer 0 like RTF support?
There is always AW6 for the Mac
I say go for it
Jamil .... I will gladly help you tear out 16-bit and 68k support with my bare hands
68k np, ppc ....grrrr
;-)
yes what standard of HTML would be supported?
FileIO is cool and easy to use. The only problem is there is no NULL character in AW. If that one character was there I think it would be complete
Feel lucky Michael's not here. He'd be taking on you guys with his bare hands. ;-)
maybe there could be a system variable called NULL
Mizen
Yeah but you've met him - he is just a widdle guy. I'm not scared ;-)
Hehehe, yah, but he's wiry
The reality of the Mac platform is that very few people are using it with AW.
LOL
OK the 32k limit is from the combination of a super-fast parser ( that requires contiguous memory ) and the 16bit + Unicode support.
Apurva - NULL, like RETURN and TAB? Right?
yep
But is that because Mac delivery is just impossibly hard?
Unicode?
Very few as in 1%? 5%?
double byte. 64k double byte leaves room for 32k chars
do you guys get a lot of different requests for increased Mac support?
Like putting up a page that looks terrible in NS...eventually people stop browsing it with NS
I thought it was 64K =+)
or just a few people asking again and again?
No, very few requests for Mac. A VERY low number, not allowed to divulge.
Well, maybe people have just given up on AW for the Mac
I get requests for Mac support because there are lots of Macs in schools and the software I'm developing is aimed at schools
can't just boost that to 128k?
forgive ignorance
another think I think would be cool is that maybe AW in authoring mode support multiple monitors
No, they didn't give it up recently. They gave it up before AW4.
I do that Apurva, how do you mean?
has to do with the way platforms allocate ram
Hm
don't want to get real hairy with all the details. just wanted to let you know
AW piece when authoring could have so many Map icons open
Apu I already use multiple monitors with AW...
so when 64bit systems are the norm, that can be increased?
Actually we'd want "wide strings" up to 2 gig
and all the map icons could make the screen all cluttered up
oh, so like DW, outside the 'window'
so we could drag one map icon on the second monitor
WOW - Imagine how big list variables could be then :-O
:D
Mac side used to work like that
Considering that there is so little demand for MAC support, and that it causes so many problems in expanding functionality on the PC side, is there any reason to continue providing support in that direction at all?
I loved it
2 gig Chris? the entire process is limited to 4 gig.
it would be so cool that AW had the multiple monitor support while authoring
Ok not wide strings ...I was think'n of BIG string types. =+)
Mark, Flash goes pretty far it its "develop once, run anywhere" claim
Apurva -you can do this already - just stretch the AW window across the monitors
I tried it didn't work
Big string types with Unicode support
it should, I've done that too
I think even Andrew tried it
I find the maximized window across multi monitors is fine
works for me - you have to NOT have the window full screen
could Aware be installed w. or w.out Mac compatibility?
hm...interesting thought
hmmm got to try it again
I think the presentation window is limited to the primary screen. Stretch the desktop and put the authoring window in the second monitor.
Erik - I think that would probably mean 2-code bases.
You mean like install AW6 if you want it, install AW7 if you don't? :-)
Mark I agree --- but if we get Flash Export support the multi=platform issue goes away
lol
no, but get your point ;)
no, like a patch system....
nightmare to maintain
ya...
So can we misquote you and say expect AW 7 rather than 6.1? ;-)
I think MS still ships VC 1.52 for 16 bit support :-)
No.
Yes - loose the MAC support for 7 and fix the "problems" related to the MAC.
Like I almost said - if we get Flash export, the multiplatform issue goes away
Awe aJaiml ;-(
but then you are limited to whatever capabilities swf has
I definitely need to learn to Tpye
I think Steve's on to something here....
what kind of flash export ? an entire app into Flash ?
or quit drink'n
Me??? Drink? Sheesh
He is a strict Southern Baptist
Yes a full application export
=+)
Or just develop in Flash if you need to deliver on Mac...expand the skill set...
Chris, there is thinking outside the box and there is just plain crazy talk.
has never touched a drop
Maybe not export directly to Flash - what about export to XML (APLE), then an import from XML feature in Flash.
but that is almost impossible because of ActiveX , movie formats
Not ONE drop
Apurva hit it...no plug-ins in Flash
So are you getting back around to Flash in AW or AW on Flash. :-)
so, is that a limitation of the swf format?
You're not going to run ActiveX on a MAC or &nix anyway.
I'd say so
*nix
I am not necessarily in favor of Flash export
I am in favor of cross platform, cross browser support
xplatform web support is kinda important
Well what I am saying is that if AW can export Flash without too many restrictions, the people who yell that they HAVE to have multiplatform support are satisfied. We all know they will lose U32s and stuff, but you can do a LOT without resorting to external help
maybe small utilities could be created, zooming , rotation of bitmaps, text stuff is possible but an entire app wouldn't be possible because flash itself doesn't support it as yet
maybe creating flash movies on the fly would be possible
I'm doing that now
From AW code?
well not right now, but I've done it
yep
flash goes easy into Aware, no way to put Aware into Flash?
so say we have a condition and you want to generate a ticker tape or some kind of small animation then that could be possible
Director had (has???) Java export that is a limited subset of Director skills. Anybody have any idea how well used that was/is???
it was bad
that's a shame, I was curious too
guy I used to work with was a director nut...he was excited about it till he used it. =+)
from aw code . yes Mark
or maybe a separate u32 or Xtra could be made
I really gotta learn Flash one of these days...
Me too ;-)
I'm with ya Mark
and Steve
lol
I used MojoScript and a dll. The dll wrapped up most of the swf format
I wouldn't want export to swf, I'd want export to fla....and this is a problem
brb
com dll , Chris ?
yep
yes, and what style of actionscripting would you want?
Jamil. If it were possible to export to Flash - aside from limited (or no) u32, ActiveX and scripting Xtra support, what might we lose?
Well, I hate to cal it a night, but I've got to go. Ya'll have a good time.
Hard to say...
Have a good one
OK Mark - see ya!!!
bye Mark
L8R Mark
l8r - mark h
ciao mark
Probably some of the more complex jumping around on the flow.
The ability to move a subroutine from one framework to another without breaking the link for one.
Could you narrow that down a teeny bit Jamil? :-)
Not until we do research.
Move a subroutine????
any kind of connection from one icon to another.
Mike, that wouldn't affect the export...presumably the flow line would be changed before the export...
I think icon to icon connection is difficult
But if the export was a "dive when packaged" then wouldn't the icon table be valid when it was exported
In a way, I think it would be easier to put the flowline on Flash, since you could drop all the stuff you don't want to support.
Mike I am talking about publishing to swf
and then as I said ActiveX , u32 , Xtra functions what about them ?
But would that still be AW?
hmmm
I've been working on a new player in Delphi for internal use that allows me to call dll functions from a flash file (using Fscommands), but its not very robust
hm...what about mwf? All the good points of Flash, plus extensibility and a tool that makes it that looks like AW
:D
Chris "not very robust" does that mean it is crap or it had mileage once you fix your code ;-)
mwf?
medium web format ;-)
=+) It means it does what I need it to do
LOL
has a button that says "Do it" ?
no...not that one =+)
No, that is his girlfriend LOL
Like as in Psychic? Do hat I am thinking? Yeah coool!
:-o
The DWIT function!
[Sat May 04 20:51:03 GMT+01:00 2002] Stefan van As: Dutch developer with class
I know when I have to do as I 'm told ;-)
Hey Stefan !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Welcome, Stefan
hi sva
Hi Stefan
hey it's our Dutch friend
hey Stefan
Hi Stefan
Hi Stefan
Hey. What's up?
howdy Stefan
We're just divvying Jamil's money into tinier and tinier chunks
Everyone was assigning you work for the next release of AW. :-)
Exporting to Flash...
yes it was very fun. ;-)
Yup - it's gonna be re-written in Delphi :-)
It's not nice to tease mike ;-)
that's the July release right?
2005
:-)
:-)
So, AW MX is not coming out in 2 months
if you release this July it will take til 05 for our IT to ok it
[Sat May 04 15:05:58 CDT 2002] Steve Howard: Intermediate Authorware icon dragger
Officially, we may or may not have a release.
That is nice to maybe know or not
lol
at least that's official
Good to know, officially
Ok, to beat somebody else's dead horse: What about Linux/Unix (player) support? I'm just curious - don't shoot - I've seen the thread, but never really heard how big a PITA it would be, if it's even doable at all
We get in lots of trouble promising releases or features.
WINE
Sure, it is doable.
Yes, we heard that caused the LA riots that time
or Lindows!
Has Lindows shipped yet?
XBox support anyone?
not yet, ain't seen it yet, but looking forward to it
Umm sure mike. Hey PS2 has flash support. =+)
Hey, good idea Mike
they're going to ask for more "memberships" before they release it :-0
we would have asked for that next
I got a XBox SDK around here somewhere...
Is there a topic to this chat?
Future of Authorware
Ok, anything is doable. But how difficult
The future of AW. You missed the first 2 hours.
no Xbox support before (non-ActiveX) HTML support!
I went through 6 months of discussion with a prospective client who wanted to deliver training to Playstations ... it never happened, but with Flash support in games machines, who knows...
We've hashed through a lot of it already
It has kind of gotten off the rails. :-)
but it will be posted
A bit.
Future of Authorware? Oh, I should had guessed that ;-)
Well, it was sort of posted on the door as you came in ;-)
In big letters
Who reads?
er
lol
Not people taking training
So, does anyone have a final list of what they would buy with their $100.
when my boss ordered AW6 he came and asked me are you sure we need it. I said yes because it has new features . My boss said that the local distributor told him that there won't be any future releases of AW
Not Mojo Massage
Some of you might already know this, but I'm flying out to Jamil's place in 2 days. This might be the time to ask us tough questions
durn
how does the local distributor know what is going to happen if it is going to happen ?
Apurva - Ha! That is funny.
Jamil, Mike, Stefan ?
Hey good one Stefan :-)
non-ActiveX html support - dynamic text creation/etc - LOADING bar for plugin?
But you'll be discussing the chat, we know
your local distributor is Jamil?
Non-modal commands, more icon properties, umm yeah that would do it for me
Jamil. that stuff is true
Jamil and Stefan, I e.mailed you a while back about the problem with the RTF KO scrollbar not appearing to be part of the object
and that could mean that half the people who ever thought of buying AW might have never bought
any thoughts about that?
because of false information
SetIconProperty
I'm sure they said that. I don't quite know why, but maybe they're trying to sell some other software?
HTML support (similar to what's available in Flash)...
More exposed properties - especially at runtime. Dynamic text manipulation. Html support in display icon. Database made easy. MUCH better plugin installation
SetIconContents, sorry ;)
yeah but can't MM do anything about it
Non-ActiveX HTML support? I guess you're asking us to embed and distribute Mozilla, right?
That Flash export thing would be cool if I actually needed it ;-)
They don't even half advertise AW
just gecko =+)
woohoo!
Oh well, we're still the 800# gorilla in this market. I guess it hasn't hurt too much. :-)
yeah you guys don't even advertise as much as you do other products and stuff like this happening might hurt AW further
yes, gecko with Aware, that would be nifty
I was kid'n
keen, even
=+)
;-)
gecko?
We can probably add dynamic text manipulation to RTFObj.u32. I know that is not the same thing as internal RTF manipulation, but we have to prioritize things and making RTFObj.u32 changes is simply much easier and with less risks.
Well, we'll post a couple pictures of Stefan and I drinking beer. That should convince them that we're working.
core of Mozilla
Mozilla's rendering engine... been in the works for a few years and is very cool
ah, cool
:0 the pic in the distributors office will be cool. I am sure they will know you are working :o)
especially as an Aware plugin
How about a picture of the two of you with one of Robin Ward's sheep? ;-)
hey, now we are getting personal
LOL
No promises, but wrapping Mozilla into a u32 or Xtra shouldn't be that hard. I've seen applications using both IE and Mozilla as a preview option.
that would be pretty neat
That being DW?
biggest thing against ActiveX is layer 0
that would be cool.
My first C++ app was an HTML parser. It's the Symantec C++ tutorial.
Yes, it would be nice if there were some native feature that let you put things on top of ActiveX and especially Winctrls
So we could all build our own? Cool
What's up with Robin Ward? Doesn't she work for the MediaShoppe?
neat, keen, nifty!
LOL
Hey can we take the Insert>control>ActiveX and make it just Insert>ActiveX? Unless you guys are planning on adding VCL or something this seems silly
No Robin Ward is a Welsh man who was very active on the list a few years ago. He stopped using AW and vanished
No that's Robin Baker
Not Dreamweaver. Nick Bradbury's TopStyle embeds both IE and Mozilla.
ah
ActiveX will *always* be on layer 0. Fact of life.
I only have the lite that comes with Homesite
yep, so don't do HTML as ActiveX please ;)
Why is that? AW restriction or AX restriction?
Yeah Stefan, Jamil suggested HTML support in the display icon, so throw away any ideas of AX
Couldn't you put some sort of ActiveX wrapper on native AW objects to boost them up?
Adding HTML tags to text files to set font attributes is really a good place to start. Is it that difficult to support...
Device context (DC) versus ActiveX. A device context can be layered because Authorware manages the painting of it's own presentation window. A child window can not be layered.
if you can dump those text files into the Display icon I am VERY happy
html rendering would be killer
Except for the 32K thing
though probably annoy the folks at digital audacity
oh yeap
So nobody has their final list of how to spend $100?
Would the html rendering include form tags?
We are listing stuff
you're not writing?
Chris in every box.....
Columnar format please, double-spaced.
Jamil I sent mi
Jamil I sent my list :-)
Non-modal commands $60, More Icon properties (including sprite), $30, random other stuff $10 having Chris shut up ...priceless =+)
not way to do a .jar install for Aware Netscape player?
Grace is right. Adding simple HTML tags support to set font attributes is not that hard. However, please mark the word SIMPLE HTML tags.
I don't think NS6 or above supports it anymore.
oh...maybe so
so no Forms
tables would be good enough for 6.5 ;)
Nonmodal commands $30, SetIconContents$20, improve flash communication/play (might appease rotation woes) $30, HTML rendering$20
We had rotation with the motion icon... How much?
$15
I like the idea of HTML support - simple or complex. The ability to dynamically change text font/colour/style/size is a HUGE leap
I don't know. I think if you were doing all the work to support HTML in a display, you'd use source from MS or somewhere that would support pretty much everything.
$50 for rotating motion icons and $50 for the HTML support (SIMPLE tags only); apply them to text being read into a variable.
Jamil - Cool :-)
Amy - maybe when you go through this log you could build a poll for the items discussed here?
maybe the ability to change / set icon items would make up say 20% of the HTML stuff
Oooh, great idea
HTML - $40, SetIconContents - $30....thinking on the remaining 30
Think you can do it so they only spend $100?
because most of the people would love color, font change , style change
Mike - GREAT IDEA
I'll throw my other $30 to rotation...or like Director's 3D support
Mike, no. It is not set up where I have that type of control
I could build it in AW though :D
The problem is that my ISP does not support ASP
Oh well. We should get good ranking from a poll anyway
will look into it though
ouch...anything server-side?
Not at this point
I want support of all the ink formats and dynamic levels of transparency that are available to images in Director.
Amy if you get the data I can sort out a poll
I'm signing off. Bye everyone...great discussion. Thanks Amy, for hosting.
Bye Grace
That is right, YOUR ISP allows server side
cya grace!
No prob
bye Grace
thanks for coming
Bye
See ya Grace
your thought is....
Chris I am setting up a new ISP for me - ASP etc support before the end of the week
Cool...asp or asp.net?
Web-forms! Yeah.
Not sure
Will know soon enough
probably doesn't matter...I'm just looking for a few good ones
isp's?
with asp.net
web forms - .NET
yeah that too
I got one ;-)
He already has the one with the button
too much info
looked at toad.net, Chris?
=+)
Don't mention it in front of Amy. :-)
You're not planning to share, I hope
how would we use web forms with AW ?
If you are simulating a web enabled app
No I haven't but I will....I've got an internal one set up but I'm wanting to move to C# for client websites
Nope
you could capture the html forms
so I'm just starting to look around
without the asp behind it
yer killin me Chris
So long everyone. It's been fun. Great discussion. Duty calls...
I have no life...programming just happens
Erik - don't EVER try to keep up with Chris
bye Erick
C# is SO cool!
See Ya Erick
oh no worries there!
Bye Erik
yeah C# is cool
C#....
Bye
bye Erik
Very cool...course I'll probably drop it when Delphi.net ships this fall
C# is my through away language =+)
ok, that's better
thanks
Have a good one
throw away
l(
;-)
maybe I should start drink'n
I just started looking into C# some 2 weeks back
You just woke u[
up
and it looks nice and easy
Yeah it helps Chris - so I heard
It's a nice language, very easy
lol
=+)
do you think making a function for formatting date and time would be useful. and detecting locale settings
I think they would be useful if the application being developed is traveling the globe
I want user-created functions and OOP-style language
user-created functions
anybody on the stuff about locale ?
Apu I think you can achieve most of that with existing functions and a trip to WinAPI
example 10/05/2002 and 05/10/2002 are different
so the locale stuff could be useful
detect and format the stuff according to region
IME, not too much need for that Apu, being selfish
:) OK
That is handled by DateToNum isn't it??
I only ran into this when I was teaching in Africa
other then that I've not needed it.
I was just wondering what people do when they enter stuff like dates in different parts of the world
others experiences sure could be different!
but other's (over seas) might
I don't care
I gotta cut the grass....cy'all!
Take care
Bye now
take care. bye
OK Erik - nice seeing ya
Have a good one
sure, it can be a pain with the Canadian 28 hour clock ;-)
So is there ANY mileage in asking for the scripting language to be updated???
What do you need?
I'd like to see it.
Case statements
UDF
You will hear loads of squawks from people who only know AW as a scripting language
Inc Dec Pred Succ
I really do like user-created functions now I have played with javascript - and Dot syntax is way cool :-)
yah, case statements
It would be nice if an optional way to write property lists was dot notation
Case statement YES
start dragging the AW community into this century
lay the psychological foundation for true OOP
Why drag them backwards? ;-)
Director made the changeover to Dot syntax with Dir 7. They kept support for old lingo syntax too. Not sure if that vanished with 8 or remained
What do you mean by backwards Jamil??
I still think AW is way ahead of its time, in some respects.
Amy, I don't think you want true OOP, it may be very confusing to the icon slingers out there
In some respects, but a lot of things programmers take for granted were not even thought of when the basic metaphor was thought of
course maybe you do...I think a radical change the script language at this point is dangerous
That's why you should kind of slide into it
flash 4 to flash 5 took me a while to become productive
Sure, AW is not a programming language.
But people learn to cope with change
We make programs in it
Lots of programmers USE AW
;--)
Sure, whatever you say... :-)
and there is no dispute that dot syntax and user-functions have their place
we programmers prefer software engineers. =+)
Ohh I love OOP/Dot syntax but it's a radical change to language that's all I'm saying
Chris you can have a software engineer if you want - it will just take a little more time
But I already said - Director did it and kept support for old lingo too
I need to improve my programming
OK. I've got to run. Promised the family this wouldn't be more than 2 hours, oops 2 1/2 hours.
your kid'n right. =+)
We all do Apurva
Sorry, but thanks for coming by!
bye Jamil, thanks for coming
thanks for the insight Jamil!!
take care Jamil. bye
:o OK Jamil -- thank you for taking the time out for this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Talk with ya later JZ
Yes, we do appreciate your interest
I don't know about everyone else, but I have a horrible headache
So Stefan... Any mileage at all in us screaming for changes to the scripting language?
never touched a drop huh Amy?
I did not want to squelch discussion, but I think I need to go now
I'm starve'n...somebody order a pizza
Honest
:-)
Awe - poor Amy !!!!!!!!!!!
;-)
I want pepperoni and anchovies
ew
L8r, all
yeah it's probably that time...I gotta eat and work on a project.
I'm outta here too.
Thank you so much, Chris and Mike
Se ya Amy!!!!!!!!
Bye Amy, thanks for the invite
thanks this was fun.
bye Amy
I don't know that I did anything. =+)
Stefan, we appreciate that you dropped by
See ya Chris !
thanks Amy & Chris!
bye Chris
Thanks all
have a nice day
Thanks all
Take care
Of course
I still wanna know if there is any sense squealing for a change to the scripting
So do we all have to leave? I got 20 minutes left
I'm fine
I walked out of the flash demo saying we could really use some object oriented Steve
After Case statements, what's next on the list?
LOL
OOS ?
Well just defining functions would be wonderful!!!
heh heh
:-o
And I would love to see dot syntax. After that I would leave it to the pros
I was thinking about this batting ideas about.
Forget DOT syntax for the moment. We'll come back to that
OK
I want objects
What about passing params to the user defined functions. Should they be by value or by reference?
the more I use property lists the more I want true objects
Em ... by value
user defined functions would definitely be a plus.
shouldn't there be facility for both type of params ?
So no changing of the passed params while in the function. Kind of throws a wrench in there since all vars are global
Yeah, should there be both. Hmm also the problem of vars being global
maybe the vars are given inside the function so those variables become available to that function the rest are global
I was thinking about copying the passed params to a temporary hidden storage and then just discarding them when finished
I suppose I could copy the contents to the var if the creator wants "by ref"
hidden storage ? would that mean every variable would have an additional storage space ?
How about an extra parameter - Ref or Val??
Every var passed in to a user defined function would be copied to temporary storage. Then the function could use it and change it but not affect the copy that was passed in
Well, that is how I would expect it to work unless I demanded otherwise
so if there are 20 vars then there would be 20 storage places . An extra overhead ? any possible pitfalls ?
So defining the function would have to include the #ref or #value marker. That could work...
:-) Cool
20 extra temp vars .. is that really an issue?
Not worried so much about the overhead as yet. I'm just exploring the possibilities and capabilities at this point
oh ok
if the function transparently handles it as a list -well it should anyway - like javascript with the Args Array
I was more worried of some kind of memory leak
yeah - I have to worry about those too. :-)
because if an app crashes due to some reason then there could be a memleak or if the aw app was terminated or closed . how would you re-initialize the memory ?
yeah. that could be one problem
What would happen for example if I started a user code and then there was a GoTo in there or a syncpoint that allowed a perpetual to interrupt and then a one way nav icon
Mike is the fact that AW variables are always global a carved in stone FOL?
Well, if multithreading were possible, it would not matter ;-)
There is a facility for creating variables at runtime. It's in the U32 samples and the Xtra XDK in fact
or if the functions existed in a "frame" Authorware app
So you could use temporary variables.
yeah???
And then there's Icon Variables which are kind of OOP but not since you can access them from anywhere.
yeah those are what I meant - they are global vars that require a local ref
I wish I knew more about their storage mechanism so I could tell you. I can add new variables to AW's table, but I never had to dig deeper than that.
:-(
What else would we need to make user-defined functions work?
maybe the email KO should also be updated to handle attachments
Kind of like using an object in another language. You don't have to know what byte is set by the SetIconProperty, Just that it works :-)
Stefan did you write the email u32 ?
;-) Yeah that would solve a lot of headaches
[At this point, the person keeping the log lost connection and the chat was over]

编辑历史:[此帖被Rock编辑过(编辑时间2003-11-15 03:19:55)]
[此帖被Rock编辑过(编辑时间2003-11-15 03:26:47)]
[此帖被Rock编辑过(编辑时间2003-11-15 03:27:47)]

与人同乐
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#22003/11/15 8:01:14
太长了，有太多简写，看不下去。。。。。。

图片如下：

编辑历史:[此帖被Y编辑过(编辑时间2003-11-15 08:10:52)]

魔岩
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#32003/11/15 11:17:21
他们在讨论AW的一些功能开发问题吧..2002年的谈话了。.



滨滨
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#42003/11/15 22:57:04
一群在AW方面很有影响却又不能左右AW发展方向的家伙在白废口水.他们谈论的好象在AW7中也没有看到太多痕迹.



滨滨
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#52003/11/15 23:06:55
对了,那个Stefan VS进了AW开发组,凭着那个RTF插件.



魔岩
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#62003/11/16 0:48:25
滨滨在上个帖子中说
引用:
一群在AW方面很有影响却又不能左右AW发展方向的家伙在白废口水.他们谈论的好象在AW7中也没有看到太多痕迹.


应该是对AW6.5了。。呵呵。自定义函数。

开始讨论的旋转问题。。也没有多少结果啊。。。别的不说。。AW不支持真彩色光标。就是想不通。。呵呵。。



与人同乐
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#72003/11/16 6:45:01
滨滨，你来进开发组如何